Karndean problem subfloor

Discussion in 'Subfloor Preparation' started by Lvtman, Mar 21, 2013.

  1. Lvtman

    Lvtman Well-Known Member

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    Got about 60sqm of karndean to uplift. Customer had it down about a year and they can see all the ply joints coming through the da Vinci. So the karndeans coming up and being replaced. Basically the ply wasnt feathered

    Is it better to replace all the ply, it's 6mm. Or uplift and 700 over it, could take a while scraping the glue off, but I guess it's quicker than replacing the ply.

    The main problem is they now have a kitchen fitted over the ply and the existing karndean.

    There is also a trap door in the floor, this needs some form of edging as the current karndean was cut in but lifting at the edges. The guy karndean sent out to deal with the complaint said it should have a bar there but there isn't anything that I've seen available. Any ideas?
     
  2. merit

    merit Well-Known Member

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    Definatly lift the ply too.
     
  3. mjfl

    mjfl Well-Known Member

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    what sort of trap door is it, got pics? does it lift out or is it on hinges
     
  4. Lvtman

    Lvtman Well-Known Member

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    It's on hinges. Looks like a garden gate in the floor but it could do with some sort of frame to look better
     
  5. mjfl

    mjfl Well-Known Member

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    1'' angle
    have you got a gap between door and floor
     
  6. Lvtman

    Lvtman Well-Known Member

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    I've not been out to the job yet to inspect, only seen the pics. Looks like there's a few mm. Is there anything less than an inch, think that's gonna raise it to much. It's in the middle of the dining room floor and leads downto the cellar so fairly big
     
  7. mjfl

    mjfl Well-Known Member

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    it's only a couple of mm thick or so, can you not butt the flooring to it, do you know what I'm talking about when I say 1" angle??
     
  8. Trimmer

    Trimmer Well-Known Member

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    CFS do some self adhesive square end bars in a range of finishes. Gold, silvet and various woods.
    Failing that, get some 4 or 5mm oak flat bead, stain to match floor, glue and pin in place, fitup to.
     
  9. Floorguy1978

    Floorguy1978 Well-Known Member

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    Had a few jobs with trap doors I use cat a9 if fitting 6mm ply. Fit the trim then the ply over the foot of the trim once the floor is fitted all you are left with Is a really neat 3mm Chrome line between the new karndean and the gap around the trap door. Looks a lot less intrusive than a bar. Never had a customer yet that doesn't like it.
     
  10. Lvtman

    Lvtman Well-Known Member

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    I'm assuming what you mean is the 45 degree inch angle. Basically looks like a stair nosing. She's looking for it to be not noticeable but also so there doesn't need to be a raw edge on the karndean. I'm thinking a small wood bead could work and stain it but I need to find out what colour karndean she's going for.
     
  11. mjfl

    mjfl Well-Known Member

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    floorguy1978 idea would be better then
     
  12. Lvtman

    Lvtman Well-Known Member

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    Yer I'm gonna go with that I think it should do the job perfectly.
     
  13. Matt

    Matt Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    are we sure the plywood lines are down to no skim coat? the plywood isnt curling is it due to high subfloor moisture content?

    did the karndean inspector supply moisture results / check the moisture or did they lift a few tiles and plywood was poor and 100% the actual issue?
     
  14. dannyboy

    dannyboy Well-Known Member

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    Agree with that . I have seen ply lines grin through even if it has been feathered.
     
  15. Matt

    Matt Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Problem we have is plywood quality in the u.k. Plywood quality has gone down over the last few years im sure you will all agree?

    A good quality plywood will mask issue present in a sub-floor, but since the quality has gone poor it no longer masks issues like sub-floor moister problems. The poor quality plywood is simply moving. Its moving because it can no longer hide the issues that lye beneath.

    Just like our adhesives and products a few years ago used to hide moisture problems in concrete floors, the amount of times we go out to a complaint and the installer says "i have been doing it like this for years", well yes but the glue etc is no longer the same product that helped you get away with it for years! All products are slowly turning to water based hence we now need to make sure a concrete floors moisture is below 75%rh or 65%rh for glue down wood products. A hygrometer was a foreign word to 99% of installers 20 years ago, now i would say that most installers know what one is as they simply now have to use one.

    The time is now here that we also need to test wooden sub-floors. To be fair we always needed to test but now its becoming essential.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2013
  16. Lvtman

    Lvtman Well-Known Member

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    I will find out, I don't think they have used a meter to check. Just lifted a tile, noticed it wasn't skimmed and instantly the blame is on the shop as the instillation was t done correctly. What meter are you using to read it? The shop had a hygrometer but is usually only for larger jobs that its used.
     
  17. Lvtman

    Lvtman Well-Known Member

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    The report doesn't mention moisture. Is does mention though that the ply was delaminating in some places , so I guess this could be down to moisture. The main problems were with the joins though showing through. I've also feather joints before and seen them show through after which is making me nervous. Obviously the first thin the customer will look for is this so I'd imagine even the smallest variation will now be picked up on.


    The ply is supplied from timbmet, has anyone else used them?
     
  18. dazlight

    dazlight Super Moderator

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    I get my ply from Travis Perkins now which is good gear.
    Ply delaminating has happened to me a few times on jobs. Due to the adhesive in the ply not being good enough. It was china ply.
     
  19. Matt

    Matt Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    You use a wood meter for reading a wooden subfloor.

    So basically a pin meter. Any meter that has two pins you stick in the subfloor is a wood meter. For some strange reason people try and use these pin meters for concrete. They are a wood meter, not concrete meter.
     
  20. merit

    merit Well-Known Member

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    There's a page in my new mercado price list saying they now supply proper decent flooring grade ply 4,6 and 9mm
     

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