Our retail shop started taking deposits years ago. Had many people coming in and saying they want xxx carpet, we would order and turn up to install but no body was in or they would turn around and say they have changed there mind. Times have changed from how they used to be and customers seem to think that they can change there mind without telling you. At FloorSkills we never used to take a deposit. However we now do take a deposit on booking a course no matter who you are, you could be my best friend or a employee. I have been forced to make it OUR policy. We had loads of people (around 1 in 5 ) booking courses and not turning up. We would ring them on the day to ask where they are and would always get " my job has run over, i will come on the next course " well that's no good to me who is paying a trainers wage to train you or others who wanted that place and i have turned away. You would think fitters would know better and at least telephone to tell us they cant come. More so that most courses book in the last few days so if i know a few days before i can normally fill the place. I have had one issue with one company paying so far. A large company put a team of installer on a cap + cove course. They refused to pay a deposit saying how big they are and that they are not going to let me down. I took a risk as they had filled the course. I let them come along. I ended up chasing them for months for payment after there fitters had attended. I eventually got through to the chap (the head of accounts and payments) that refused to pay the deposit and i honored the course for them. When he answered the phone i said " hi mate, its Matt from FloorSkills, could you chase up a overdue invoice for me please " ( i was be super polite as they owed me money) . His first words back was to me was " lets get something straight here MATT, your not my mate so do not call me mate, you address me as Mr XXXXX " I had to end the conversation before i exploded ! (yes maybe i was wrong calling him 'mate' but as i had many telephone conversations with him chasing the deposit and agreeing i would not charge a deposit with him as a 'trust' relationship my figure of speak came out as 'mate') Anyway, i was about to take them to court but the same company tried to rebook same people on another course next day as the gaffer was very happy with the feedback from the fitters. lucky as i got to explain what had gone on to gaffer and my invoice was paid asap. However i refused to book anyone else on from that company unless they paid in full. I had a written letter of apology and the member of staff that was holding on to my payment and messing me around was sent on a customer relations course apparently and then a review of his job position. Dont know the out come to his employment. As for the colleges i work for . Most dont pay until students finish. i can be waiting 18 months for payment depending on what scheme the student / apprentice may be on. A hell of a lot of out lay in materials and wages over a 18 month period. Worse thing is if a apprentice leaves after 3 months or so due to change of career or leaving employeer i dont get paid a penny. If im lucky i get a small payment for part completion depending on how far through the apprenticeship they are and if i can sign them off on part credits to the course. We was averaging 1 in 5 who drop out of floorlaying as its "not for them" and leave employment to stay in bed all day while mommy makes them breakfast in bed for the rest of there lives. I can always tell on there first day who will drop out but i have to lump it knowing i wont be getting paid for them when they leave a few months down the line. Even worse is if a student / apprentice leaves without completing the course our OFSTED rating takes a hit as part of the OFSTED rating system works on how many people complete! We have however managed to reduce how many people leave now by asking employers to employ the apprentice for a few weeks before sending to us. . The ones who drop out will drop out before they get to us. We have not had a drop out for a fair few months now and we are getting a really good range of apprentices.
First of all I’d like to say a big thank you to all who have responded to the question of deposit requests, it’s reassuring to know there are others out there with similar concerns. One of the nice things about being your own boss is not having to report to anyone. However, it also means that you are the only financial loser if clients don't pay up. When someone hires a flooring contractor, they are paying for his experience, competence, ability to anticipate problems, and, more than anything, for his willingness to assume final responsibility for the whole job. I try to deliver an increasing level of value to my customers, but there are some people which I choose not to serve. There’s plenty of work out there both domestic and commercial, and many of us have achieved great success by focusing on certain segments of the market and not trying to be everything to everybody. I on the other hand, have decided to be flexible and not to specialise in one type of customer because I feel safer that way and have been quite successful up to now. I think I’ll stick with that winning strategy and continue to try to add more and more value by completing each job to my best ability. I hope I’m not offending anyone but I reckon that if Muslim staff at M&S can politely ask customers buying alcohol or pork to choose another till, I’m sure a sole trader like me absolutely has the right to refuse service, and I do not have to put up with difficult customers if I don't want to. The service we give in the flooring trade is like any other exchange of goods or services - there are two sides, and either one can refuse to go along with the deal. The main thing anyone in this trade should have to ensure they get paid for their service is a well written contract. If you start a job without a contract, your client will have you by the preverbal balls and can leave you in the dust you have sanded from their floor. It may P people off but it's all about respect, if you start work without a contract your customer may not fully respect you and frankly you're not respecting yourself. Contracts are there to protect both parties and if somebody isn't willing to sign one or are reluctant to pay a deposit, it may be because they're trying to pull a fast one. A contract should also specifically address the terms of payment, and serves as proof of your agreement. Judging from the replies to this topic on the forum, many operators also request a down payment before a project begins. A deposit fee establishes trust in the transaction for both you and the customer. It also seems from your replies that the industry standard is anything between 25 and 50 percent but this depends on who you are and what sort of work you regularly do. Some have found that while it can be difficult to begin asking for a deposit if you don't already do so, many will tell you that it is worth the trouble. It can be disappointing for a buyer to balk when you ask for a down payment, but you have to wonder whether they intended to pay at all. Although a few prospective customers may decide to work with someone else, you won't waste your time working for a defaulter, and you'll also have a sense of security. It's up each individual whether you should choose to charge an up-front fee once you're comfortable working with someone and you should trust your instincts. If I ever get a bad feeling about a prospective customer, I always trust my instincts. Some things to watch for are comments about jobs they have had done in the past, or indifference about the pricing of your work. I’m also on the lookout for an unhappy customer during a survey and they may tell you that they have previously tried withholding payment from another company. I never rush a client's decision when in the initial stage of the transaction. If someone isn't sure what they want and you pressurise them, they may show their resentment by deciding not to pay. I reckon you should respect a potential customer's need to mull over a decision using whatever time frame makes them comfortable. In conclusion, if you regard yourself as a professional then you and the customers you work for should treat you that way. I have a clear understanding of what I’m worth, what I will do for the customer and when/how I expect to be paid.
You sure your a floorlayer? No floorlayer i know can write so much, spell, have punctuation correct ( i think) etc. Forum users, beware, its finally happened, there is a clever person on here !
Sorry mate, I must have swallowed a dictionary for breakfast that day! I promise to make my posts more succinct (that's not a kinky plumber) in future. Bob www.floorfixer.co.uk
succinct ???? WTF does that mean? Can anyone translate please? As above, beware we have a clever person on the forum. Swallowed a dictonary? You should be on Master Mind. FloorLayers are typically dumb people that are good with there hands, spelling, grammer, maths etc are a grey area we dont understand. Speak floorlayer please.
A pal of mine is a Project Engineer. He designs and oversees the building of production lines in bakeries and dairies. I've had this conversation with him a few times about payments within the building industry, and how people don't get paid etc . He has told me that when he orders a new production line , sometimes costing in excess of a million pounds,the manufacturing company with demand a minimum of 50% deposit with order ,a further 25% within a further three months and then the rest is normally negotiated between the manufacturer and the client. Normally it's 15% on completion and the rest paid over a determined period i.e 1% a month for 10 months as a retention . My point is , why does anybody in there right mind think it's unreasonable to ask for a deposit and payment on completion !! Try going in Tesco and doing your shopping and saying 'I'll call back in a few weeks time and settle up then ' Do you think you would get out of the door !! Phil
