Expansion gap

Thank you, dazlight, much appreciated.

 

If the floor is wrong you will get your money back for paying for Sid to visit assuming there is a problem.

I'm not sure if you will get it back from this court date though. I expect you would have to counter sue them for it.


Either way it won't be fun for you.

As Matt said. The judge has nothing to go on ATM and you will most likely have to pay up. Unless you can prove they said they would do remedial work but haven't done it.

 

Yes you can see the tongues left on and butted tight to the wall on both length end walls. The guidelines that came in the packets of wood said there should be a minimum of 10mm around all edges. The company who fitted the floor's guidelines say they fit to a 15mm gap all around. The owner of the company just keeps saying that the floor was fitted correctly but that "the wood has expanded since it was fitted, as expected which is why an expansion gap is left."

 

Five times this year I have asked the company to have an independent assessor. They have refused to do so. I paid a local floor layer with a good reputation to produce a report for me but the court won't accept anything except an accredited independent assessment that has been carried out and paid for jointly by both parties, so even if I could afford Sid Bourne's fees, just having a report I could take to court with my evidence wouldn't be counted. The fees for Sid Bourne to come to court to give evidence are beyond my means. That's how the small claims courts run now!!!

 

I have already paid for 3 reports, one from an independent flooring assessor who came from Nottingham. The court informed me that because I commissioned them and they weren't jointly commissioned by both parties, they can't be counted in the evidence. The court informs me that only a jointly commissioned report will count, i.e each party paying half, then the one who wins the case can claim back the costs from the other party to a maximum of £200 that the court can award. It is a nightmare. I have already spent over £300 on a solicitor. I can't get the skirting boards put in until the case is settled, and my books, cd's, photos etc are stacked in boxes because I keep having to move furniture away from the walls. It's a good job I am a tough cookie and can see the funny side. There is another hearing in Court on 19 August which I hope will settle the matter - one year from when I ordered the floor. Who's for carpets? Lino anyone? Anyone got a wood burner would like some wood?

 

How much are the company asking for?

 

No reflection on Sid meant at all. He was very helpful on the phone. It's just that the court have already said that they would not accept an independent report that was commissioned by only one party. I have already paid £250 for a report from an independent assessor who came from Nottingham and it was put in my evidence. The Judge said that the court would only consider a report that had been commissioned and paid for jointly by both parties, but the company that laid the floor won't agree. To pay for Sid to come to Court with me as a witness is far beyond my means and he is based a long way from Norwich. I consider that I do have plenty of evidence of poor fitting - five reports, one by an Independent Assessor (not Sid) and over 30 photographs. The only fly in the ointment that no-one seems able to answer is - the company claim that the floor has expanded since it was laid, as it was expected to do. Could this be the case? In any event, shouldn't there still be a gap around everything? My floor has been butted up against the walls lengthwise since it was fitted and the gap has been 5mm or less widthways. The wood is touching three of the radiator pipes, though the other three have a reasonable gap. The wood is butted up against the archway and the door frame to the French windows. Is this correct, even after expansion? Why can't anyone answer?

 

If the skirting boards had gone straight on would we be having this conversation?

Doesn't sounds like it's been installed correctly but what problem is there ATM? I'd be worried about the pipe leaking if it's that close to them

 

Thanks for replying Lvtman. Funny you should say that about the skirting boards. There was a hard sell from the company to do that but I like to give as much work as I can to my local carpenter. Although not able to have fitted the floor, he is more than capable of putting the skirtings on so I chose to put that bit of work his way, as he has helped me out with other jobs. He came to see the floor the day after it was finished to measure up - saw the problem and that's as far as we have got with the skirtings so far!

 

Lvtman - the problem at the moment is that there is another Court hearing on 19th August and I want to be as prepared as possible with every answer that I can. The first hearing traumatised me as the Judge refused to take into account the independent report I had paid £250 for, saying because I commissioned it it couldn't be considered. He would only consider a jointly commissioned report. He didn't look at any of the photos or other written evidence but sent us to a little room to make a settlement or agree a joint report. The company agreed to refund my deposit within 14 days. So I went away rather grumpy because I had spent a lot of money on solicitor, reports etc. but thought that maybe that was the best I could do. 14 days went by and the company did not send the refund, so I spent another £50 getting the case re-opened, which is due to be heard on 19th August. You can't say us oldies lack stamina!

 

Do I understand correctly?
The carpenter came the day after to fit the skirting and the gaps were as they are now?

 

Yes, the floor was laid during week beg. 16 September 2013. What is confusing to a lay person like me is that, according to photographs which have been taken pretty regularly each month up until now, there doesn't appear to have been any contraction during the winter months or expansion during the summer - tho' there has been no room to expand, as most of the wood was touching the walls to begin with.

 

Nobody has asked the question??
How long was the wood left in the house before it was installed?

 

The irony here Ann is if the floor had failed or shown signs of failing due to the lack of expansion, you'd be in a far better position to contest this. As nearly a year has passed and the floor has gone through the seasons (not to say it won't fail in future years with higher humidity levels), you're in an awkward position.

You've withheld full payment (which puts you at an immediate disadvantage in relation to the courts) - regardless of your belief (justifiably) that the floor was installed incorrectly - with most contracts (to my knowledge), full payment must be made before a claim can be made. Although, not fulfilling the terms of a contract - in this case that the floor will be installed as per manufacturers guidelines - is certainly an argument. I'm still not sure how the law looks at this. I believe the law mostly looks at things in retrospect with evidence as opposed to potential future problems, excluding matters of public safety (regulated) or damages for future health issues. I personally believe in this instance the rule/concept of 'no harm no foul' would be favoured.

Others may have a different outlook on that..

"The wood is butted up against the archway and the door frame to the French windows. Is this correct, even after expansion? Why can't anyone answer?"

No, that's not correct or perhaps a better way of putting it is, it's not ideal. As if the wood is butted up to solid surfaces, it gives the wood zero room to expand should the humidity in the room/s rise. This could potentially lead to failure in the form of the floor lifting and compression issues as well as possible leaks from the radiators.


Expansion and contraction isn't guaranteed. If the humidity levels in your property stay relatively stable and/or the species of timber used is more resilient to climate change (this can be the case with mature timber - hardy), then the expansion and contraction may be negligible. I've seen it many times when I'd have expected a floor to fail and low and behold years down the line it's fine.

 

That's actually not relevant here Mario. By all accounts the floor hasn't moved. The argument here is how the installation has been carried out - as in cuts.

 

Yes, Trimmer, as far as I can tell. I don't look every day but have been in the habit of taking photos once a month or so. I do keep checking on the radiator pipes as people keep telling me they are vulnerable but, although the wood is touching at points on the pipes, the pipes haven't bent or anything - it all looks the same. It's hard to tell if there's been any movement where the wood has been touching all the time since it was fitted, such as against the archway and doorway and at the length ends of the walls.

 

For info - 6 days before fitting.