you cant without being a pain in the arse John ! The forum is automated by paypal. Paypal take the money and paypal activate your account. When you membership expirse paypal also shuts the account or renews for you and keeps active. Its not me doing it. However i can override it if i need to. Hence if a refund is due for what ever reason or i can activate. However to activate a account without the payment going into paypal becomes a little more diufficult but can be done. Best to give me a call John and i will sort it out for you .