Belvedere Floor In Heat by lhearsum posted Jul 21, 2015 at 1:59 PM IMG_9082 by lhearsum posted Jul 21, 2015 at 2:00 PM IMG_9080 by lhearsum posted Jul 21, 2015 at 2:00 PM IMG_9083 by lhearsum posted Jul 21, 2015 at 2:00 PM IMG_9115 by lhearsum posted Jul 21, 2015 at 1:59 PM IMG_9146 by lhearsum posted Jul 21, 2015 at 1:59 PM IMG_9147 by lhearsum posted Jul 21, 2015 at 1:59 PM IMG_9148 by lhearsum posted Jul 21, 2015 at 1:59 PM In January we undertook a full refurbishment including £36k of new Amtico floor, now six months old. 54sqm of this was replacing old amtico with new amitco design tiles and so far we have no issues with this area or the 50sqm of Polysafe the fitters also fitted. We do have massive issues with the 240sqm of the Signature Collection Fresh Oak they laid. This was fitted in two areas: Our main function suite The corridor running to/from the function room Sub floors: Corridor - concrete, 18mm ply Function suite - concrete, baton&Beam, 18mm ply The adhesives, screed etc they used to fit both areas - 240sqm (what is on the invoice) Stopgap 700 flexible fibre reinforced screed 22kg x 16 Stopgap P131 Neoprene Primer 5 litre x 3 F46 Pressure sensitive acrylic adhesive 15 litre x 4 My concern - of course the floor should not be lifting like this after a matter of months! The photo where the tile is pulled up is how far it came up naturally, we did not pull it up it just flapped open this much! The fitters have today agreed to replace the corridor FOC and said we would talk about the main room when they come in. Up until now they have tried to blame the main floor lifting on our heating that comes up through vents in our floor, I know it is not because of this for several reasons: 1) They have admitted fault with the corridor, surely the main room was fitted exactly the same way? 2) We had no problems in February when we did have the heating on 3) The problems only started in April/May so either its that it wasn't secured properly and just loosened over a few months or that the sunlight caused the adhesive to loosen - but we did specify heatproof adhesive etc had to be used as the room gets very warm in the summer. 4) The areas that have popped up are nowhere near the vents some are right in the middle of the room! I understand this room is a large area and think them admitting fault would put the responsibility to relay FOC at their door but at the same time we paid a large amount of money for what we were promised would be a perfect job and I am now spending a lot of time trying to resolve this and trying to find two days free when we can shut the corridor for them to relay in our busiest season! We cannot leave the main floor as it is, it looks like cheap lino when it bubbles and its a trip hazard If anyone has any advice or comments / suggestions it would be really appreciated. I am just not sure what I should expect them to do. I do not think there is another answer apart from a complete relay and do not think it should be our responsibility to pay for this? Thank you
I can't see any of the pics ? Did they do a moisture test on the concrete and what type of ply wood did they use ? If the room get really hot it will lift off F46
Also using F46 breaks the terms of Amticos guarantee It's a decent adhesive but not approved by Amtico
Spacey and Rugmunching sorry I didn't realise the pics wouldn't come up (I am new on here!) I have changed my album security so you should be able to see the pictures now? I am not entirely sure if they moisture tested the concrete. On the invoices the ply used: 18mm Plywood Sheet (M.R) (1.22m x 2.44m) Assume MR means moisture resistant Concerned the F46 is not the recommended by Amtico and therefore voids our warranty! But assume they had a reason for using this over the Amtico advised product - I will ask them. Part of our main function suite is like a conservatory - one whole wall is ceiling height windows that turn in to doors and the ceiling is a glass atrium - hence it can get very hot in the summer (we do not have air con!) but we did tell them about this - They said everything they were using is heat resistant so there would be no problems Thank you for your help so far Louise
First off a concrete base should always have a rh% meter reading before speccing a job (this takes 72 hours to get a final reading) from what i can see from the pictures looks like moisture issues, the heat shouldn't be the problem as pressure sensitive adhesive is suitable up to a higher degree than HT adhesives which they recommend truthfully the sub-floor if concrete should've been DPM treated and screeded with a suitable product, although the products used from what they've stated are good quality and shouldn't really be at fault unless there is a manufacturer issue or fitters mistake. and they should always take temperature readings of the subfloor prior to fitting this information really should have been presented to you at the time and you sign off on it so to speak that what is in their report is correct (stops loads of the blame game). If you don't get satisfactory results you could employ an independent inspector such as Sid Bourne to come and find what the problem is how to rectify it, and if it's a fault of the fitter or manufacturer will do a detailed report which will stand up in court (if it sadly comes to it) hope this helps keep us informed how you progress.
Thank you so much for the information, I have just emailed them now to find out if the moisture was tested and what the reading was. I am pretty sure originally the concrete had a DPM layer but it was built roughly 11 years ago - not sure if it lasts this long? When they email back I will post the results/ further information on here. Am hoping they come in this week/ early next week. We are located in SW London Thank you for all your help Louise
5th pic down looks like there's no glue at all ? 4th pic down What the hell is that underneath ? The Aero advert in the first pic looks like like it's all expanded and lifted off the F46 (which it will) Must be a very hot on that area All the rest is popping up too probably all fitted cold and not acclimatised or enough glue by the looks of it
Why has a plywood subfloor been put over concrete? Did the contractor installing the plywood wait for the concrete to dry? The f46 glue would work fine if used properly and is probably a better product than amticos own if not the same!!!
Hi Spacey That is why I took the picture! - there is no glue on the back of the planks either! I am not sure if the grey/ white underneath is the screed or adhesive but either way the pic shows how patchy it is. I have sent these to both Amtico and the floor fitters and they do not seem overly concerned. In the fourth picture that is where the patio goes in to the corridor so the grey you can see just underneath I would assume is the screed/adhesive? Although considering what Merit said maybe I am wrong and they only put ply in the main function suite (they were done on the same invoice) if they just placed the screed straight on the concrete maybe it is this that is showing - either way it looks messy and should have been covered up! The first pic is directly in front of one of our windows - yes it does get hot but no warmer than anyone else's floor would get on a hot day in the UK! Fluctuating temperature was discussed with the fitters so if F46 is not suitable for this I am not sure why they would use it especially if it isn't what is recommended by Amtico. The floor was fitted in January so it was pretty cold! My feeling is that they took on too large areas and not enough glue was used so when they stuck the boards down it had already started to harden - wouldn't explain why there is no residue on the back of the planks? Hi Merit - the concrete was already in place - as mentioned above I may be wrong and they put the screed straight on the concrete but from the invoice it looks like they charged to ply it judging by the sqm. Thank you so much for all of your help, you have made me feel a lot more confident when they come in to say that errors were made. Hopefully it will go well and we will come to a resolution. If we cannot I will look at bringing someone else in but to be honest do not like the thought of paying another £26k for the main floor to be redone! Never mind that as a function venue it is near impossible to find enough days in a row to do it - we booked this work two years in advance! I will of course post back once they have been in and let you know what they say Thank you again Louise
Ps adhesive takes a looooong time to go off it stays tacky for ages well unless it's bloody hot and you use mapeis
You can see very faint trowel lines on the 5th pic on the feather but all of them pictures are shocking. Keep us updated on this!
Hi They are coming in one morning next week so as soon as I have seen them I will post an update! Thank you for all your help! Louise
Hi, some interesting pictures, was this issue resolved? Whats your maintenance schedule on the floor? The reason i ask is ive seen vinyl planks and tiles react to some types of cleaning, in particular, using steam.....
