hi - first post here so be gentle.... we have bought an old property and have taken delivery of solid oak flooring (18mm x 180mm - mixed length) ready to be fitted but we have hit a snag in the living room. the floor is solid concrete but because the property is old and the rear walls (one of which is c1760 and grade 2 listed) have little in the way of foundations, the recent very heavy rain has led to a couple of patches of damp showing up in the concrete floor near to the walls - the walls, skirting and plaster are however dry. we suspect the floor has been badly sealed when laid, and water is seeping under the shallow foundation and up into the floor. as I say, this is only in a couple of patches and rather than relay the floor (big, messy, expensive job) we are thinking of putting a DP layer down on the floor and effectively tank the floor to external moisture (we may also extend the DP layer up the walls a bit )- something along the lines of Mapelastic AquaDefense which can easily be rolled on and dries to a flexible membrane. we might also lay a self levelling compound down first to sort some small uneven levels out. so - anyone with experience of doing this? can solid oak flooring glue be fixed to such a membrane?? are we barking up a wrong tree?? some advice sought please! we have the wood flooring sat waiting to be fitted but until we sort this issue out we are a bit stuck!
I think you would of been better off with an engineered wood floor. If you can actually see damp in the subfloor it sounds like a serious issue. Not sure I would trust a surface dpm. Better to dig out the subfloor and have a new one fitted with working Dpm. That way it will be dry and flat!
agree with merit dig it up and get the slab relayed with a mechanical dpm, as otherwise the likelihood is if you dont do it now you will have to do it within a year once your floor blows, do half a job now and you will pay for it at some point in the future the wood is also drawing moisture from the moist slab as we speak so you really need to get it sorted the right way first time to avoid a rip it up and start again scenario.
thanks for the replies guys I have a builder in at the mo and we are looking are sorting out the damp floor first as a priority by making sure the water ingress from the outside is sorted with some additional drainage and surface levelling outside, and cut out the damp area internally and relay the concrete with a decent DPM to seal it off against any water coming under the foundations. keeping as much water away from the external walls is one of the keys. he is replacing guttering and fascia boards as well to improve the run off from the roofs. with regards to it being Grade 2 listed, I have checked with a friend who's an expert in structural surveys for grade listed properties (he is well known in old property circles) and he has stated that provided we do nothing to the foundations to effect the material structure of the external walls, there are no issues to worry about. as soon as we mess around with the walls then we can expect trouble! once these issues are resolved I see no reason that a solid wood floor will be fine (at our own risk of course) but we will take further advice once the work has completed. however, we are looking at an option to replace it with engineered wood if we can get the supplier to agree to this!
Also your new concrete base will need to dry properly can take an awful long time but after around 4 weeks of it being down an rh% test can be run then a suitable dpm applied rescreeded then your flooring can be installed
after talking to the floor suppliers this morning, they suggested using something like Bona R580 or Rewmar MB Epoxy DPM on the concrete floor (after suitable cleaning) as these will give a good DPM and are suitable for use with solid wood floors - Bona was suggested as best as it gives a 100% barrier. any experience of using these out there?? this is of course after getting the current problems sorted and settled down. it's a bummer as we would have liked to have got the living room floor sorted out before our new kitchen is fitted (and wall between dining room and kitchen taken out for good measure) as at least we would have then had a bolthole while all that work is being done! ah well - best take time and get a proper job done, than screw it up through haste.
There's no such thing as 100% that's definitely misrepresentation I would probably say either one of fballs systems or ardex dpm 1c then k11 screed over the top
I spoke to Ardex who suggested Arditex NA to level, followed by DPM 1C, and then more Arditex NA for a final level - sounds like a suggestion. the builder doing the external drainage works to help sort the issues out has defined where one of the damp spots originates via a blanked off drain which hasn't been sealed off properly so allowing water to sneak back under the wall. sadly he can't seal it off today as it's hammering down with rain now so we have to take a punt it doesn't get too bad over the next couple of wet days.. he has also spoken to a guy who laid his wood floor (on new concrete - lucky bugger!) who has suggested using Sikabond Rapid DPM with a physical membrane over and use battening to level the floor. any thoughts on this method?? personally I'm not sure about battening as that might raise the floor levels too much and being an old property we already have low ceilings!
Na is to weak if you are going to bond solid oak down. Use mapei latex plan trade with the epoxy dpm. Will you float or bond an engineered if you manage to swap it?
Swapping to engineered is going to be too costly so I am going to stick with the solid I have and find the best solution for the floor - I think we are getting there with the DPM, latex levelling and maybe an additional membrane (cover all bases!), but it's bloody confusing when you're a) not an expert, and b) have no experience of the relative merits of the various brands mentioned. ask a question - get 20 different ideas - typical bloody forum!! I'll steer clear of using battens as the floor is too unlevel in parts from the sections we have looked at so it does need a levelling compound. It also has a couple of small areas that will need some chipping down, and a few gaps that will need some filling prior to levelling. one question with levelling compounds - remove skirting first I assume?? and if so, should we then seal gaps between the concrete and plaster or let the compound flow into this area?? yes I did - and I rang them to clarify after reading this article - http://www.fitmywoodfloor.co.uk/how-to-stop-sub-floor-moisture-from-damaging-your-new-wood-floor/. so I assume from the above 2 comments that it's not really suitable?? so why is the fitter in that article recommending it??
No idea why the compression strength is way too low, stick with Mapei if you're going to be using a latex and you're best with the epoxy dpm in your situation
thanks - I assume you mean something like the Ardex DPM 1 C as the epoxy? would Mapeproof ESM be good to pair with Latexplan?? I have a bit of a thing about pairing products from the same brand/company together as I suspect that they are designed to work together in preference to any possible mismatch by using different brands. call it my OCD...
Exactly stick with the same company esm is a good product so you won't have any problems and if you do you're covered
I'm the person that wrote that article. To answer your question, the use of NA was included within the article subject to direct clarification from Ardex tech (Collin). We've had the same discussion on here many times regards compression ratings, and indeed, I did mention that to Ardex tech on several occasions. Of which they disagreed as to the importance of this. I know you're going to read this Matt, and it really isn't a challenge to you or the guidance you give regards this. It's been mentioned that much on here that even as the writer of that article, I'm now also conscious of compression ratings/hardness and veer towards using high compression rated products. In this instance my peers have won over the manufacturers. It is still a question that may well need discussing in the future. I've not found any instances where a direct bond wood floor has failed directly due to a low compression rated latex (Not through my travels or google etc anyway). Again, that isn't a challenge or anything of the like. It just seems to me that it's one of those things that gets mentioned a few times and then becomes blind gospel. The only reasons really why this question is lingering, is due to the contradiction from the manufacturers (< consistently) and the lack of failures (There may be tons of them but I can't find any). There's also little mention of this (to my knowledge) by the wood flooring manufacturers, although, we all know how vague they can be. Ready for someone to throw a kick ass article by bwfa at me...As soon as it lands, I'll edit the article I wrote
Based on your room conditions, you'd better do with engineered hardwood in 1/2" maximamly to reduce the risk of such problem.solid wide plank oak is most dangerous after installation. The wider one the easier to have movenment and expanding, therefore finish will possibely lost adherence on the wood. use 3.75" solid cumaru( brazilian teak) is another better option to suit your property.
