Hi, got a 50+m2 area to level for amtico Access loose lay 5mm square tiles. It is 30m2 extension and kitchen floor with ufh in the screed (dried and quite clean and fairly level, just a bit of curl up in the corners) and dining room and hall about 20m2 1950's concrete and probably no dpm but no signs of damp whatsoever with bitumen residue left from marley tiles taken up maybe 25+ years ago. So do I try a Mapei product (never used any) or just look to Ardex NA or maybe CL or K15 or a mixture or something else and to prime or not to prime? Thanks.
I missed these replies, sorry. Not in direct sunlight really, well maybe some might be occasionally but will have a sail shade on the patio in the Summer so shouldn't be an issue. Appreciate HT adhesive is probably best course but the UFH is not in all of the areas and won' be whacked up, only used minimal as tbh it's so well insulated that an oil rad heats it all fine at the moment, probably didn't need bother with the ufh! I'm thinking of just using the SLC to just lightly coat the floor as it's all pretty level and 5mm amtico shouldn't show any unevenness, just make for a nicer laying surface
Whether you use it minimal or full whack, makes no difference, you'll need a compatible adhesive as in a HT adhesive
Thanks Rugmunching, guess it's all about expansion and contraction with heat although understand that tackifier is both UFH and Amtico Access compatible, I've got the 5mm thick tiles if that makes any difference? Got lucky on some obsolete stock for 1/5th the price and thought it would work at home on ground floor. Initially i thought about PS adhesive be then read the Access installation data sheet on the internet and it was tackifier beingf mentioned firstly as the way to go so figured it would be ideal in the non UFH areas about 1/3 of the area) and thought as it was compatible with UFH and the Amtico Access application data only 'recommends' HT adhesive where heat variation is possible (rather than saying it's the only option) I figured the tackifier could be okay to use with the 5mm version as it would be more rigid, are you saying it wont actually work? I don't want to cock it up obviously so appreciate tapping your experience .
Back to thinking F46 PS, might be a safer option, maybe the term 'loose lay' only really applies in commercial situations on access type floors!
Just asked Jason because forums are places for discussion and where you can seek the experiences of others. I watched Ardex and Fball videos where tackifiers and PS adhesives are both rated UFH suitable as well as specific HT adhesives, the application methods differ for each so I was asking to see what knowledge there was available on the various options I was presented with based on the 5mm Amtico Access tiles being laid. Forums are also where informative posts can be left which may be useful for others to view what has been considered and used in different circumstances and may relate to their own undertakings or be considered helpful. I've used F46 and tackifiers with LVT and carpet tiles but in a limited capacity and not over ufh. I've used some levelling and smoothing compounds but again with limited experience compared to current professional floor layers and hadn't used Ardex NA for example. With the bitumen residue, I was unsure how adhesives might react without any preparation and whether NA was necessary or the only option for that particular areas prep. This is a DIY project and done in stages as limited for free time but enjoying the process of understanding and learning about the products and choices available.
if it still has the black bitumen adhesive on the floor, im fairly sure you either have to grind that off completely or alternatively wash it off with F.Ball C140. its pretty much a washing up liquid to be honest, but if you dont take that bitumen up, when you put your filler on top, it goes all muddy and it doesnt really adhere to the floor.
You can grind it off but it's alot easier to latex over with 1200. Easier, quicker and alot cheaper for client.
But neither NA or 1200 adheres to the bitumen. I've seen it with my own eyes, as soon as filler hits it, it turns muddy and doesn't dry, it's happened to me twice, when I wasn't aware of it, went in the following day and had dig out spots of compound and redo it. I was lucky enough it was in an industrial situation so it was easy enough to rectify, heaven forbid it happened in a house where people's eyes are more honed, if you know what i mean. It doesn't take long to grind it off with a concrete plane, only a few minutes. Alot better than having to redo anything in my opinion
Both NA and 1200 do take to Bitumen. What I've found is if the bitumen is moist or wet it doesn't bond well. I usually grind in such cases. I've also primed before 1200 over bitumen which has worked very well and looked fine next day and as of today never had a problem.
Not sure about grinding bitumen or any other toxic adhesive. Make sure the customers are out of the house. Are you going over bitumen adhesive or some sort of oils Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Old 50's black bitumen that stuck original marley tiles. Lifted them years ago and, scraped back then used as finished floor, just offcuts of carpet for runners, eventually laid engineered timber. With extension complete got enough 5mm amtico access to do hall & dining room too. I loose laid Amtico over Christmas, looked great, over 90% of screed flat enough but galley kitchen 5mx1.2m had ardex A46 screed repairs (long story, screeder cocked up) I used Ardex feather finished but not happy so considering Ardex CL all over to try flatten out better but don't want to build up too much. Then thought a light skim coat over the bitumen with NA so it didn't react with adhesive. Was going to use tackifier all over but bought some Ardex 145 PS adhesive for UFH of the extension area as got nervous about tackifier and tiles growing then lifting.
I'd feather dips/floor first then 1200, that for me would work going on those pics obviously check moisture levels in floor base first to make sure okay.
Feather the dips first, that's a really useful tip Jason, thanks. Had hoped with 5mm thick Amtico very little would show through but in early natural light I can see some subfloor imperfections in kitchen repair area even after (my amateur) ardex feathering (photo 1 & 2). Rest is very good as seen in 3rd photo take from the dining room knock through (ok one or two dips I can skim). I have a floor rubbing block/stone to try that on feather finish in galley else hoping couple mill pour there might smooth it better and feather that out into the main area. For flow is 1200 better than CL or NA? would a primer over the feather help flow and so level better/easier? Photo of the kitchen joining the hallway shows the bitumen which is under the engineered wood, I don't really want to get a grinder in to take that all off when I get to doing the dining and hallway.
Id only prime if its abit moist but with 1200 with p131 or Ardex A55. I prefer A55 to P131. Remember to vacuum below to prime and after you sand the 1200.
