New Apprenticeship Lancashire We have the NEW apprenticeship for 16-19 year olds running in the Lancashire, Yorkshire & Humberside areas, I am looking for enrolments onto the apprenticeship for September 2011 and need your help. Do not miss out on this fibula’s opportunity to be involved in the New Apprenticeship for Floorcoverings How will it work? • You need to employ a young person 16 to 19 year old • The apprenticeship will run for 12 to 18 mouths • The apprenticeship will need to attend the training centre in blocks to be determined • The cost of the apprenticeship is fully funded • At the end he/she will have a full B-Tec NVQ Level 2 in Floorcoverings which will be higher than 90% of flooring installers in the UK • The apprenticeship is open to anyone within the Lancashire Yorkshire & Humberside areas So come on give it a go lets now put quality flooring installers on the map promote your business to be outstanding in quality, show your customers you care about flooring. For more information contact Dave Brown on 07515 885 912 or Matt Bourne on 07971 199 204
Question 12 - 18 months and their fully qualified to go out on their own to carry out installations. And only 16 - 19 year olds, from my experience 16 - 19 year olds don't want to do a trade with such a low entry wage, they would rather work in Mc Donalds fliping burgers for 250 take home a week. Thats the real sticking point excusse the pun, you really need to start telling the shops and companys about this as they are the ones that set the prices and for most of us those prices don't really allow for us to get an apprentice even if it is subsidised and payed for only to find out that in 18 months he or she is more qualified than me and now becomes my competition.
Yes Jay, they will be qualified to go out and work. I think most installers are ready to go out after 6 months+ but these chaps will have the major advantage that they will be getting trained at college for all different types of stuff along with they go out training with someone like your self to learn also. Basically its like they get to go on training courses every couple of weeks! As for not wanting to go to work at 16 and preferring to be in Mcdonalds, not all youths are like this. Me for instance i went straight into college when i left school. There are plenty of people out there that want to learn a trade, they just need to be educated that the money wont be the best to start with but once they are qualified and out there working they will earn a lot more money than there mate at McDonalds. Also a lot of old school installers are getting them self qualified now Jay. End of the day you cant renew a CSCS card any more without a NVQ. All other trades are qualified so isnt it about time the flooring trade started to follow suit? We all keep moaning about the standard and pay we all get, this is a chance to raise the standards and what sort of money we earn in the trade.
Thanks for your reply Jay Yes, I understand your frustration, but it is like your signature says Together Everyone Achieves More the more quality that’s out there then the more the trade is recognised as quality and not the bob the builder. However, I would like to thank you for your opinion.
Thank you to all the intrest in the apprenticship Matt we have confirmed 3 new apprentice starts in Yorkshire :smile: we have 6 confirmed in Lancashire they are 4 shops and 2 one man bads thank you for your support and kind word Matt
Jay, take me for example i finished school just before i was 16, i went straight into college and on the way to complete my level 2 diploma, there was 19 of us that was there and out of us all i was the ONLY lad to get an apprenticeship throughout the whole course, we had to source our own apprenticeships, ( even tho our college promised to help ), i left college just before i turned 18 an just before then i started doing karndean and amtico installations for friends and family and thats with only 18months experience, and the money side of it all in terms of what i got payed from the company i served my apprentice was well, 10 quid here and there but i didnt care i love laying floors learning new experiences cause college is nothing compared to the real world in houses etc. Like you sed most of them rather just work in maccies flippin burgers and most of the lads that went on that course are now actually flippin burgers in maccies, I now have just turned 19 and have my own business, yes its hard at the start like all you lads no but youve got to start somewhere, but overall i really dont think 18 months is enough for a training course because by the time everyone had finished the course over 3 quarters of the work being produced on that course was abousolutley SH*TE, but not being big headed or anything i was the best there and thats obviously down to being in the real world and working in real situations, sorry for the big essay, and if you have actually read this i appreciate it Thanks Owen
Fairplay to you matey, every 1 has to start somewhere. You can only be as good as your tought by others if they do it the wrong way so will you. At least the apprenticeship will get people doing the very basics the right way which is half the battle. Then Its all experience. You get better the more you do. If some1 keeps saying your not ready to do that job or not good enough you will end up never learning to do it.
Was the work crap because the instructors was poor? or was some of the lads just not capable of doing any better ? How do you think they could of improved this? For instance the Apprenticeships through 'Flooring Assessments' will be using top notch trainers. I have seen in the past some useless trainers and always wondered how they got the job! This is where i have got involved tho, i will be setting the standard and i expect all candidates to meet that standard along with who ever is giving out the training. Train the Trainers first then onto the students LOL
Im looking to get my nephew in 2013 when he leaves school. will need alot of advice on paying etc. While on the subject, could i take a school work experience lad for a week or is it lots of hassle?
Owen I read your post fully and admire you for sticking with it thats what I like to hear a lad that has stuck to it. I was taught by my father and grand father its been a family trade since the birth of Lino and I can trace everything back to the 1800's when my great great great grandfather and his brothers enterd the industry. I learnt the hard way and actually wanted to be an electrician to my fathers disbelief, and when he found out he made mother pack my bags and said theres the door boy off you go then. So I left school at 15 and became an apprentice in the flooring game and been doing it ever since I made it to contracts manager 1 year younger than my father and even an estimator, however last december I decided to come out of the office to train my step son who dropped out of college and had no future for himself and no qualifications to go forward with. So together we purchased a van tools I already had alot of them so no need and we are doing quite well. He is coming on in leaps and bounds the early days were difficult, but now he's coving and capping on his own laying carpet tiles Karndean he loves and Amtico and he's even hand stitching the bull nose for me to fit he's fitting straight runs of stairs not quite mastered winders yet but it'll come. Do I think 18 months is enough no for a start yes then perhaps they get their PASS and have a card like the new drivers have with the green P on the back, then I think they should be placed with someone and shepparded for another 12 months to gain full in the field acreditation. I do think this is a great thing but it'll only work if everyone signs upto it and shops and companies are forced to employ the services of truly acredited proffesionals, theres to many out there who slash and hack giving us all a bad name. I for one would also like to see us that are acredited have to sit a refresher course every year to prove we still have it in us to perform at the top of our game. I would like to appologise to Matt and Davejackbrown for my first post if it came across as negative it was not meant to I have this terrible habbit of writing down the negatives and the posatives and if the negs out way the pos then its a big fat N for me so sorry guys keep up the good work and would love to hear more on how this will work and move forward.
Just to add sadly my apprentice is 21 so no chance of getting him on that would love to hear what my options are for him to get acreditation or is it just simply I have to pay to put him through.
I know what you are saying Jay, I cant believe the amount of jobs I go to and the customer says. Shall we get the skirtings painted after because you will obviously damage the skirting boards when you fit the carpets? Who the hell fitted your last carpet? Before any1 says it, no they are not my repeat customers :roll:
It was both to be honest matt, my instructor had been off the tools for 10 years which i dont think is right at all!, but i think ive mentioned in my first welcome post about a fella who was in the middle of becoming an instructor himself came in once a week to see how it was and i worked closely with him about the latest techniques and methods and basicly seemed to know a lot more than my instructor, then theres the students, its really impossible to say how bad they where, basicly they were there for the money which was 30 quid a week, thats all they cared about, but im talking about 12 months into the course..... Screeding with adhesive trowels..... Laying vinyl tiles the wrong way and upside down.... Screed that looked like feather edge and feather edge that looked like screed!, and thats only just a few things! i assure you im not bullshi**ing, and i think it could help by sending the instructors on courses just like us floorlayers like say for example, mapei/fball/Laybond/uzin courses to know about all the latest products available because he didnt seem to know the latest stuff that was out etc, all he ever used to talk about was laybond products cause the course was sponsoured by them and provided the materials free of charge, so he never talked about fball or mapei or anyone else, but obvs them courses cost money and they are not going to pay that sort of money unfortunately.
Dave can confirm if he can be enrolled onto a apprenticeship Jay. However i can get him funding to take his NVQ onsite where i come out and watch him work. This would be FREE of charge. But obviously he needs to be competent of fitting on his own. You being his employer would have to decide if you think this is so before we even think about coming out to see him. As for teh apprentiships not being long enough, they don't automatically leave with a pass. They still need to pass what tests etc and we also come out onto site and see them working also. If they are not competent they wont be passed off. Now obviously when they are passed we don't expect them to be the best fitters in the world. They will still be learning and learning for many years. But at least they have been shown correct in the first place. The problem you have is- some chap takes on a young lad, he teaches the lad how to install carpets but at a very poor standard. Now this lad wont know any different as that is the way he was shown. But if he was on a Apprenticeship he would coming to the college every few weeks and been shown by instructor (possibly me or even you jay?) how to do it the correct way and why, the differences etc. This young chap has now been given the option of becoming a good fitter or a bad fitter. If he goes with good he will listen to us and pass with no issues. If he goes the bad way he will simply drop out as he wont pass. To me i think this is the only way to up the quality in the trade and thos that learn the Correct ways get rewarded with a qualification. Maybe there employer will even listen to them and there 'new' ways and educate themselves on a training course. End of the day if your not shown you will never know! PS Jay, no offence taken
Apprentices vary a great deal! Some, like in previous posts, start on their Diploma, then get work while on that, or after finishing. They can then transfer onto full apprenticeships. School leavers who attend floorcovering courses are often only doing so for their EMA and to avoid being kicked out of the house! Is it any wonder their work is not exactly what we should expect and hope for? Most, however, are sent to college as apprentices by their employers. By far the best way!! Most work for a relative, or have some link to the trade. This way, they know what is involved before they start. One of the first questions I ask when interviewing applicants is 'What is floorcovering?' You would be surprised how many get rejected after answering that!!! We have a couple of companies who send apprentices to us regularly. Once they complete their two year course, they are then classed as improvers. Whether they are any good or not is determined by their skill, not how long they spent training. I have one lad from Humberside who is capable of sent out on some fitting jobs on his own after completing his first year. On the other hand, I have some whom I have refused to recommend to employers. It will simply take too long to make them competent, if ever. We started with 20 trainees last September, but only 11 have been allowed to progress to their second year. At the moment, you can do an apprenticeship at any age - yes ANY AGE. We have half a dozen working in different departments at college aged up to 45. If you pay the CSKILLS levy, employers can get grants for the time an apprentice spends training and bonuses for attendance and completion. We also run a scheme just now where an employer gets £1000 after 6 weeks then another £1000 after a year, for taking on a new apprentice. The apprentice has to do an extra 4 week course before being registered on the apprenticeship scheme, but then is still eligible for all the usual grants. This is a very limited scheme, on a first come first served basis and we have already taken on one lad under the scheme for a September start, with the other apprentices. Plus......NVQ candidates and apprentices don't need to pass the H&S test any more for full qualification. This is only needed for the CSCS card
And this why i have got involved mate. This is why im going to be setting the 'quality' of the training. As you know i work very close with a lot of manufactures. I still install and i run training courses also. Hence doing a Apprenticeship through Flooring Assessments will hopefully set a very good standard. (flooring Assessments is using instructors that have been trained by myself so we all work to the same quality of the standards)
Just read Owenhynes last post- Be interesting to know what college you were at. Not in Liverpool, or Wales, was it? Don't knock floor smoothing with a serrated trowel though! Some products can be applied with all different types of tool. I tried out a 6mm ceramic trowel a few weeks back and got quite a surprise. (I din't actually believe it would work, when I was first told to try it.) Plus......College tutors should go in training courses regularly. It's the only way we stay up to date. Unfortunately not everyone does.
Okay then bendIT your sayin that some school leavers only attend the courses to get EMA am i correct? Then they are stopping the ones who actually want to do the course and become a qualified floorlayer a chance of doing it?, because i know that some students where denied the chance to come on the course as it was full, oh and i dont think you understood me when i was saying that they were screeding with an adhesive trowel?, i wasnt 'knocking' trowels i was stating an obvious mistake by a student that had be on the course a whole 12 months
