Failed screed - what to do?

Discussion in 'Vinyl / Impervious floor coverings' started by Oldskoolskater, Jun 13, 2019.

  1. Oldskoolskater

    Oldskoolskater Member

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    Hi Folks,

    I'm after advice on a situation I find now myself in.
    Having had a load of work done on my house (room knockthroughs, etc.) which included electric UFH and screeding the entire gound floor, several flooring contractactors have told me that the screed has failed (blown?) and because of this they can't fit the glue-down LVT which I already have.

    It's a 100yr old house with a suspended wooden floorboarded floor and the make-up on top of this is as follows:
    1. Fitted 6mm tilebacking board (secured with screws and washers)
    2. Primed
    3. Fitted electric UFH on self-adhesive mesh rolls
    4. Screeded with 10mm of Instarmac Ultra Tile Level It 2 part latex filler
    5. Experienced quite a lot of run-off under the house through gaps in skirting etc.
    6. Primed
    7. Screeded and spike rolled with 5mm more of Instarmac Ultra Tile Level It 2 part latex filler to make up the run-off loss

    The screed had lots of hairline cracks over the next few days but I thought this was natural due to it being installed on a suspended wooden floor. Any movement is minimal underfoot though you can see slight movement when scrutinised up close. At this point the UFH hadn't been commissioned so didn't heat up the floor too fast or anything like that.

    Fast-forward to the flooring contractors arriving to fit the glue-down LVT. They told me the screed was blown and it would all have to come up and be relaid before the flooring could be fitted. This cannot happen due to:

    1. A new kitchen has been fitted on it
    2. This would destroy the electric UFH
    3. The cost to rip everything up, buy again, then refit would be extortionate
    4. Too disruptive, this is the last step in the entire project

    So I'm now looking at my options on how to move forward, as I certainly can't go back. I've been told that glueing the LVT down would be pointless as it would just lift, though it might last months or years before any issues arise. Would it be daft to get the LVT laid but without glueing it down? It shouldn't move as it would be tight against walls, etc.
    The LVT is Polyflor Expona Commercial

    Any thoughts or ideas on what can be done? I'm absolutely devastated.

    Thanks in advance

    Oldskool
     

    Attached Files:

  2. brenchy

    brenchy Well-Known Member

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    I didn't think Level it 2 was a flexible smoothing compound ! I
     
  3. brenchy

    brenchy Well-Known Member

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    if you are using the instramac range then the super flexi 30 would of been a better choice here
     
  4. Oldskoolskater

    Oldskoolskater Member

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    Apologies, wrong product !

    It's ProLevel Two - Flexible Two Part Floor Leveller
     

    Attached Files:

  5. tarkett85

    tarkett85 Well-Known Member

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    That’s a complete failure, looks to me that someone whapped on the heating to full whack instead of over time it needs to be removed and done again


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  6. Oldskoolskater

    Oldskoolskater Member

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    It was cracking prior to the heating being commissioned.
    The floor was at 18 deg C ambient then increased by 1 deg per day until it got to 25 deg.

    Removing and doing again is not an option unfortunately.
     
  7. tarkett85

    tarkett85 Well-Known Member

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    You have no other option, it’s a complete failure you can’t salvage that especially because it’s de-bonded from the sub-floor. If it was cracking prior to putting on that heating then the product needs testing to see if there’s a manufacturer fault or whoever screeded it cocked up.


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  8. Rugmunching

    Rugmunching Well-Known Member

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    Well if you want any flooring then you will have to remove it regardless whether it's not one of your options or not I'm afraid.

    The screed is loose and loose laying the LVT will not work either.

    If you want LVT then the blown screed needs taking up ....Fact!
     
  9. tarkett85

    tarkett85 Well-Known Member

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    And just to add you can’t fit on that at all


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  10. Rugmunching

    Rugmunching Well-Known Member

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    What actual primer did you use??
     
  11. tarkett85

    tarkett85 Well-Known Member

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    Don’t know but those craters tell a story.


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  12. Rugmunching

    Rugmunching Well-Known Member

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    Pva :eek:
     
  13. tarkett85

    tarkett85 Well-Known Member

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    Looks like it, if it is then it’s going to be fun.


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  14. Neilydun

    Neilydun Well-Known Member

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    Thats a real nightmare. Did you choose that product yourself ? or was it specified.
    Ultra floor make a similar product, Level it 2, which states its suitable for use over ply, but it really is not.
    Normally a fibre screed needs to be used over electric ufh
     
  15. pf flooring

    pf flooring Well-Known Member

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    That's a dogs dinner, your not fitting lvt over that in anyway shape or form, unless you DIY it, no professional will go near that
     
  16. Spacey

    Spacey Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I've just done one of these a couple of weeks ago ! I did the whole lot apart from connecting the thermostat

    The backer boards look like there not fixed solid to the sub correctly You can only screw them if there being laid on a flat surface like chipboard and more screws than that are needed I always fully stick them down with flexible tile adhesive so you get no movement or voilds and prime with uzin 630 and a flexy screed over the ufh mesh

    That was doomed to fail from the off

    It's a full rip up and replace No saving that
     
  17. Floorever

    Floorever Active Member

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    Wow!
    Before looking at the pictures I thought you ‘might get away with’ using a click lvt BUT no chance sorry!!!!

    As spacey said, the majority of the reason is the fixing of the fibre boards. They should be secured by tile adhesive or like ply - 6” centres and 4” perimeter.
    That’s been secured shockingly!!!!!!!

    Absolutely needs to come up.
    No other option at all.
    Sorry fella.
     
  18. Oldskoolskater

    Oldskoolskater Member

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    Thanks all for your replies, much appreciated.

    I've been in touch with the area sales manager for Instarmac and after talking him through the install process he's concluded (with technical) that it's due to the boards not been stuck down with adhesive prior to securing with screws, so Spacey was bang on the money.
    I've gone back to the UFH supplier as it was they who specified the items for the job once we'd detailed the install brief. At no point was it mentioned that adhesive would be required.
    I'm awaiting a response from them at present.

    It's incredibly frustrating as to walk around on it you don't feel any movement, ridges, or unevenness - it just looks a bit like crazy paving!
    I did think it might have been down to the natural movement in floorboards & joists initially, but guess I've been too naive.
     
  19. mjfl

    mjfl Well-Known Member

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    boards not fitted correctly and not enough primer or incorrect dilution, it won't matter how much you spike roller it the craters will appear again and again if the primer is insufficient. Appreciate you say that removing it isn't an option, unfortunately it's going to be costly either way
     
  20. Spacey

    Spacey Super Moderator Staff Member

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    It's a sickener like mate Hope you get it sorted at their cost
     

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