LVT install issues; potential fixes?

Hello all,

Hoping for a bit of advice and guidance on how to remediate a recent install of LVT we've had carried out.

Background of job: Kitchen subfloor is concrete (previously LVT on top), dining room/kitchen extension (previously LVT on top) and hall is suspended timber (previously laminate). Job was to bring all floors level as possible with each other and then smooth between subfloors for a smooth finish. We were made aware that a spirit level finish is not necessarily achievable.

Job carried out: All floorings were removed and back to subfloors. Channel where wall had been taken out (between kitchen and dining room) was filled with screed (note: original concrete floor was not re-screeded.) Suspended timber floors were ply-boarded up around to concrete floor level. Feather finish was then used to bring floors flush together and fill ply joins. See images of work in progress attached, first three. I only took these at the time as part of a before/during/after quick snaps.

LVT (Brampton Chase) was then laid on top of this and it's left the flooring looking & feeling very undulated in places, mostly in the areas where the floors have been flushed together but also in spots on the original concrete floor and in some places where plyboards have been joined with feather finish. It's noticeable especially when the natural light shines in and through (south facing house and hall looks right through to end of kitchen). See images of some but not all of the undulating parts attached too.

We are at the point where we have been informed that a fix to these areas where feather finish was applied is not possible in the sense that fixing one part will create another problem. We've said that this does not really matter and we would like a smooth floor but it's leaving me wondering how to achieve the right result here.

Is anyone aware of how this fix/issue should be best addressed please? Or if there is any information around the how the installation could have been carried out better (if possible?) so I can be informed about where we might stand what sort of fix/remedial work is required?

Many thanks in advance.

 

Would have been better to fibre screed the whole area once ply was fitted.

 

You need to take some planks up and check to see of there is any delamination with the ply. Looks poor prep in some parts to me though

 

Cheap plywood by the look of it. Can show ply lines. When we feather the joints we do them twice and sand down each coat with an orbital sander. But I think a full 4-5mm fibre screed should have been priced on that job.

 

Thanks both for taking the time to reply. Is it unlikely that a decent fix can be achieved without taking up the whole lot and going again? Or could the fitter address the issues in isolation?

My layman mind says that it would surely be easier to start this job again then attempt fixes in isolation but then the costs would be twice over for the companies involved, which they are likely going to be reluctant to agree to.

 

I know the plyboard was from Jewson, the adhesive used was F44 and the screed they used in small parts was Level It Two.

 

Plywood should be SP101 or FG1 if laying direct on it imo.
screed is fine and F44 for LVT these days is a surprise. Best with F48 HT or Uzin KE66

you should be saying take up bad areas and re feather the floor and fit new planks.

 

Also, he doesn't appear to have been overly generous with the staples, from what i can see of the feather in the hall, the joints aren't properly secured, looks like high and low spots either side of the joints

 

Apologies, mis-type - it was F45 used not F44.

I'm concerned with all that's been mentioned that taking up bad areas, smoothing and fitting still won't constitute a good job. Ply isn't SP101, potential issues with staples (shouldn't they be screwed in/nailed in with ringshanks anyway?), feather isn't adequate in at least 50+% of where it was used.

Preparing for the worst, is there an industry specialist or body that would take up a case like this if a fix is refused or done badly?

 

Looks like ply delaminated but also poor prep work. Def would have been using a fibre screed over the whole lot with so many different levels and variations going on

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Was it F46 ?
Has he used staples. If so that’s no longer British standards. Stands like a chancer. Needs all ripping up and starting again.

 

Yes he used staples on all layers of ply. In some areas there are two or three layers of ply as he built them up and then has tried to charge us for them saying they were outside of the original remit of the job (ie. he costed the job for one layer of ply and when we asked if it would leave the floors unlevel he put more in).

We had a meeting with the fitters yesterday and remain at an impasse. When discussing a fix they kept caveating any repair with the suggestion that we would quite possibly have further undulations in the floor as a result. They suggested if we got the LVT manufacturer out they would ratify the job either way, now or when repaired. We agreed it might be best to have that happen before attempted any repair.

Having spoken to yourselves and an independent flooring inspector, quoting British Standards of installation and manufacturers installation, we feel like this might be the best way to get a positive outcome here.

Bizzarely we have since had an email from the flooring company who sub-contracted the fitters out to us saying that we have now refused as we stopped a repair happening yesterday (we categorically did not) and that they raised a dispute and escalated it to a third party.

Not a pleasant experience so far but many thanks again for your help to this point. Hopefully we will get a positive outcome of some kind.

 

Ahh so they trying to wiggle out of it then.
Sounds like you got a battle ahead

 

It does, it's a shame because we've renovated the entire house over the last 12 months and had almost perfect experiences with trades up until now - this was the last job and also the single most expensive cosmetic job to the house.

I'll keep you updated if it's of any interest.

 

Name and shame them

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Looking at the pic the staples aren’t close to the edge either. Needs to be within 10mm and every 3-4inch along both sides.

 

One fitter going to look at another’s isn’t really worth it as it’s always going to end badly, you need to firstly insist that Brampton chase take a look at it as they will surely state it’s not to a satisfactory standard, if not you need to search google for an independent inspection and ask for a full report.

 

I can't see in BS 8032 where staples cannot be used or have to be within 10mm of the edge. Do you have a reference or link that could be useful?

Having looked at the plyboard they have used non-structural board and I'm wondering if that's acceptable. The glue bond of the board is only class 2 whereas BS recommends that boards should get class 3.

 

https://sp101.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/SP101-Application-Guidelines.pdf

 

There’s nothing wrong with jewsons ply. It looks like your subfloor is a mess. 5.5mm ply isn’t going to solve anything other than a flat floor. You needed a thicker ply a levelling compound. Possibly a new subfloor before all the prep work. Do you have any pics of the subfloor before the work started? How olds the house?