Hello folks. This is my first post and I am no flooring expert. We’re about to invest a considerable sum of money carpeting our house and we want to do the right thing for a quality job that will last at least ten years. We’re dealing with a local carpet firm which have been here forever and is respected but I want to check a few things before we seal the deal next week. Thank you in advance for your help (I have used the search engine before posting, promise). We want an 80:20 carpet (wool & nylon) so we’ve narrowed down the choice to Ulster York Wilton or Grange Wilton. We prefer the more dense pile of the Grange Wilton. From memory it’s £53 sq/m compared to £46 sq/m for the York range. We have no pets or children but the house has a through-lounge which means that this section of carpet will be subject to frequent use, as will the stairs. First question: is the density of the Grange Wilton carpet worth the additional price? Second question: which underlay? The carpet shop people seem very knowledgable when discussing the carpet but, every time we try and raise the question of underlay, they quickly shut the discussion down and tell us that we should be buying the TreadAir (sorry if I’ve spelt this wrong) PU foam - their best is an 11mm deep version, although they have the same type with thinner depths. That’s all they have on display in the shop (it’s a pretty big carpet showroom). The 11mm TreadAir PU foam is £11 sq/m (I don’t think it’s linear metre but I may be wrong). I’ve read on here that the Ulster Wilton range should be laid on their Axfelt underlay. Ulster recommend this on their own website and even offer a guarantee extension from six to ten years if the two are laid together. While we like the softness of the PU foam, you guys have said on this forum that it doesn’t offer the same longevity for the carpet, especially if it’s a woven carpet. I am especially worried about the heavier traffic areas and walkway through the lounge and stairs. Is Axfelt okay to lay on the staircase as some of you have said it’s too deep / inflexible and others have said it’s fine? And, since the carpet shop don’t have any for us to bring home, we don’t know how it feels underfoot. Is it too hard or will it create that luxurious feel when we walk on it? Is it worth the extra cost and should we push for it? We want to do the job right, doing it once and paying a fair price (generally speaking, you get what you pay for in life). I am a little worried that the carpet fitters that the shop use may just want ti lay the easier PU foam and lack the experience of laying the Axfelt. We don’t want to job to be ruined by a poor fitting. The carpet shop say that they include fitting in the price of the carpet / underlay for all customers as standard. Thank you for reading this far. In summary then: 1. Grange Wilton or York Wilton? What’s the real-world difference and is it worth the extra money? 2. Axfelt or 11mm PU foam TreadAir underlay? 3. Is Axfelt okay for the stairs? 4. Does Axfelt feel good to walk on, suggesting a quality floor job? 5. What should I be asking the carpet shop about the people they use to fit the carpet? Thank you again for your help, Arianne. PS. They are coming to the house on Monday to measure up and we go to the shop on Tuesday to try and finalise the deal. Unless you tell us otherwise!
Both are wilton carpets so they will both wear extremely well. Ive not used tredaire for years. We always use cloud 9 as its a bit softer underfoot. axfelt is fine for all areas and will last forever. Its firmer than pu but if your getting a extended warranty its a no brainer
@merit - thank you! Really helpful and reassuring. Arianne. PS. My other half supports Villa although, for my sins, I have followed WBA since I was a child (it doesn't get any easier since the glory days of Cyrille Regis) and we also have Karndean flooring in our Kitchen which is truly excellent!
Well hes obviously a top bloke! Sorry to hear your a west brom fan At least they havent played each other for awhile, keep the peace!
We use treadaire chromium 9mm as our main underlay due to its 180kg Density. Can’t comment on them carpets as I don’t sell them.
Thank you both. @dazlight , that’s a bit technical for me - the weight ? We’ll call the store tomorrow and have another chat about the underlay so they’re prepared for the main discussion next Tuesday - no surprises that way. I’ll let you know what they say as I hate it when these threads just go cold without a conclusion. We both appreciate your advice because carpets are something we buy so infrequently it does feel a bit scary spending all that money without having sufficient knowledge. Arianne
Hello folks. Well, the man dropped by today to measure up. We asked a few questions and we were told that: Our existing grippers can be reused. The carpet we inherited when we bought this house is quite cheap, contract carpet. So it’s quite thin and it certainly feels it now, some years later. Do you think it’s wise to reuse the gripper and I’ve read somewhere on this site that you fitters sometimes double up when laying thicker underlay and carpet. Would this apply to an Ulster woven Wilton carpet with Axfelt underneath? I asked the man and he said it would be okay, but what do you think? The fellow said that he felt with fairly light use and no pets (there’s only two of us now in the house) that the carpet and underlay would last ‘forever’ whether we chose Axfelt or PU foam. Thoughts? Axfelt will inevitably be more expensive but I really don’t want to experience ‘Buyer’s Remorse’ a few years after investing such a lot of money. For example, if the price difference between good and best is £1,000 then that’s £100 per year over a ten year lifespan, maybe less if stretched over 15 years? The fitter has no preference for either the denser Grange Wilton or the slightly less dense York Wilton ranges. That’s about it. Tomorrow afternoon we are due to meet the salesperson in the carpet shop. Any final advice or thoughts would be appreciated. Best wishes, Arianne.
I think most carpet fitters would replace the gripper if needed for that type of carpet. The width will need to be doubled up unless its very good quality gripper
I’m shocked at the gripper can be reused ? A rental maybe. But there is no way they will be the correct distance away from the skirts. We use new gripper on every job. We use gripperrods professional.
Thank you both. I’ll let you know how we get on after our meeting with the carpet shop salesperson tomorrow. Instinctively, it feels to me that if we’re spending a significant sum of money buying a good quality carpet and underlay, you wouldn’t try and save a few pounds on the extras? It doesn’t really make sense. As you have said, if it’s for a rental or to flip a property quickly on the market then maybe, but not in the context of what we’re planning with our house. Hmm, life? It’s interesting, which is why forums are one of the internets better inventions. Thank you again for taking the time to reply, you’re both very kind. Arianne.
So I think this may wrap up everything. The saleswoman at the carpet shop had worked out the prices for the two different carpet ranges before we arrived this afternoon based upon the measurements provided by her colleague yesterday. The pricing was very transparent and showed each element. I noticed that she had included the price of new grippers and door bars. When my husband explained that the fitter had suggested we might reuse the existing grippers and door bars, the lady explained that she wouldn’t recommend this because the grippers and door bars sometimes twist or break when the old carpet is being removed. She also said that the little upturned claws (nails?) that grip the carpet would likely be damaged when removing the old carpet. However, to be fair, she was about to remove this item from the itemised quotation if we wanted her to do so, which we did not based upon your advice above and what she stated today. She also explained that they had spoken to their Ulster Carpets representative and he had confirmed the extension of the warranty because we are also laying their Axfelt underlay at the same time. However, the lady said the warranty would be doubled, but couldn’t quite remember from what. So she is checking with the representative again and will get back to us. What she did say is that between the Ulster Grange Wilton and Axfelt underlay, this would last a very long time - as you guys have already mentioned. The saleswoman seemed very knowledgable, not pushy, the pricing was clear and they offered an extra 10% discount on the whole thing beyond their already good price because they apparently are part of a buying group with Ulster Carpets that allows them to access a better sq/m rate. It was certainly better than the other local carpet shops and, when we went to one of the big box retailers before Xmas, their prices were sky high - no doubt preparing to then discount in January after offering it for 28 days at an unattractive price. I didn’t want to buy from a bib box retailer. Ultimately, the proof will be when it’s all laid which will be a few weeks away yet. They’ve offered to fit the carpets in the house over three consecutive days so we can decant our furniture and beds from room to room. That’ll take some of the stress out of it hopefully. My husband was considering the option of buying over the internet, perhaps the carpet but certainly the underlay - because of price. He’s usually great at these things based upon all of the projects he has done in the house and on our cars in the past (he did a complete kitchen refit from a company called DIY Kitchens for me last year and it’s fabulous). But I played my trump card on this one as I just don’t think I would be happy purchasing expensive carpet over the internet and having it laid by someone we tried to source separately. The local carpet shop has been good, the price seems fair, and I know that the whole job is being managed by one company with a physical presence in the area, with a reputation to maintain (their Google reviews are almost five stars). Hubby agreed @merit and @dazlight thank you again. I’ve no idea who you are and we will probably never meet (indeed, if we do, we wouldn’t know it). But you’ve given of your time and experience and that is kind of what these forums are all about really. I’ll head off back to Mumsnet then . Best wishes. Arianne.
Cheers Adrianne , that’s great news. That shop sounds good and great advice about the grippers by her. Good Luck with the carpet and I hope it goes well.
Sounds a great shop and you'll be getting a really lovely specification installation. Allowing the shop to supply everything really will put the emphasis on them to get everything right for you. Post some photos when it's done and enjoy your new install.
@merit , @crazydaze , @dazlight ….. I just want to thank you all for the advice and guidance. The fitters have been here this week for three days (they are employed by the shop itself and they offered us the chance to stagger the fitting so we could decant the furniture). This is Day 3 and they’re busy fitting the lounge and dining rooms, having completed the landing, stairs and hallway this morning. As you can see in the photos, they’ve doubled up the grippers. They have said that the carpet / underlay should last a very long time due to the quality. Here’s hoping! Mostly in life you get what you pay for and I think this is true on this occasion too. The skirtings and door architrave are unmarked, external corners around the house are undamaged and, to our untrained eye, it seems like they’re doing a great job. Carpet and linoleum fitting is an art. My partner and I fit kitchens, bathroom suites, do electrical work and the brakes/discs on our cars…….. but not carpets, proper fitting is a key element of the job and it’s a skill. So, I promised that we would update you and I absolutely hate it when folk ask for advice but then fail to follow it up at the end. Once again, thank you. You’ve been so kind to give of your knowledge, experience and time freely. I think that’s what these type of forums should be about. All going well, I’ll seek some further advice in about 20 years time! Best wishes, Arianne.
Hi Arianne, I’m in process of replacing my carpet and is thinking about Grange Wilton, too! I have similar questions and experiences of underlay - every shop I have been to seem to use different underlay, and a bit reluctant to discuss it much further… was wondering which store did you use? Hope it’s in London or nearby… also is that colour Spelt? It looks very lovely.
I hope it’s ok to use this post to ask a question about underlay too - one of the room I’m looking to replace the carpet is going to be home office (may put a guest bed too). It’s mostly just going to be used by me. One of the shops recommended to use a dense rubber underlay because of the chair, another shop said a normal one is fine and they can stick the carpet and underlay together so when the chair roll, it doesn’t get into the carpet too much. Any advice on this, please? Thanks ahead!
Hi Jojo, Well, unlike the professionals on this site, I am just someone who did a lot of research and asked for help because I wanted to get this right. You get one shot at this and carpet quality, as well as underlay, is initially very confusing for us novices. We’ve had our Grange Wilton down for a week now. It’s fabulous. Why? Because the carpet pile, while not terribly deep nor incredibly soft is very dense. It is most definitely soft enough to walk upon in bare feet and it feels good. The trouble with deep carpet pile is that it collapses and gets crushed under load. Dense and short is the way to go. The 80:20 wool & nylon composition mens that it hard wearing but predominantly natural. The underlay is, as I have come to realise, just as important as the carpet - maybe more so. There’s a small cupboard on the landing where the fitters laid the carpet but not the underlay (they was no need as it’s not a walk in cupboard). This section has enabled me to appreciate the luxurious feel that is provided by the underlay. We chose Axfelt underlay. The fitters said that the traditional rubber bubble stuff ‘is rubbish and will just reduce to dust over time.’ That’s what had happened to the old underlay in the areas with the heaviest foot traffic - it was clearly evident when we lifted it a week before the fitters came. I wasn’t convinced about the high-density foam. It just didn’t look the business to us. What made the decision to choose Axfelt easier was that Ulster Carpets, the manufacturer, offered to double the warranty if their Axfelt and Grange Wilton were laid together. I was worried about the springiness of the Axfelt, especially since we chose a relatively short pile carpet, but it’s fine underfoot. The fitters had to double up on the carpet grippers and the internal door threshold bars are set lower than previously because of the combined depth of both underlay and carpet (it’s a slightly more pronounced valley between the carpets in both rooms along the thresholds - I hope this is clear but if not, just say and I will post a photograph). We’re both overjoyed with the quality of the carpet and underlay. I am glad we invested the extra money for the Grange over the York option. I think York would have been okay but it’s just not as dense. I would have chosen it if the Grange was unaffordable but we were pleasantly surprised at the total cost for the whole house (4 bedrooms) and so we went for it! We live a long, long way from London though! Our house is in the beautiful Scottish Borders and the supplier / fitters were Chrysties of Hawick, a Border town about 20mins drive from us. They’re a traditional firm with a long standing reputation here in the Borders (you go bust quickly here if your reputation nosedives). I don’t think they would supply and fit in London but you never know (the delivery team told me that they travel overnight so who knows?). I would try and find a traditional shop locally and negotiate with them since, if anything goes wrong, it’s easy for them to pop back and rectify it. Colour? Yes, it’s Spelt. It blends well with the different colour schemes in various rooms (lounge is teal, bedrooms are green or plum etc.). We like the colour very much and it does appear somewhat different in varying light and intensity, in a nice way. I hope this helps. Maybe the fitters will have more to say and, if I’ve got anything wrong, they can put me right. All the best with your project. Arianne.
