We have a room which we use as a home office - desk and chair. As stated above, we chose a dense, short pile carpet with a properly woven backing. The Axfelt underlay is shown in the image and it’s a layered composition of crumbed car tyres and felt. I also was worried though about the impact of the office chair wheels on the carpet in the Study. So, and this is perhaps a bit rubbish, we have placed a square off cut of the carpet upon which the chair rolls across. This has protected the carpet beneath. However, it does mean that the section of carpet doesn’t get exposure to UV light and so, over time, it’s possible that a fade difference may emerge between the uncovered and covered sections. Our workaround is that, since we spend 50% of our time in Italy each year at our other home (Como City, by the lake of the same name), we will remove the over layered off cut when we are away in Italy so that the whole carpet in that room gets exposure to the sun for extended periods. I suspect there are better solutions and the professionals on this forum will know what they are - I too would be interested to read what they have to suggest. Best wishes, Arianne.
Hi Arianne, thank you so much for your quick reply and detailed information- much appreciated! I don’t have much experience in choosing carpet, I felt Grange was better under the foot when I tried it so was thinking spending a bit more to use it - it’s really reassuring to hear your first hand feedback! Thanks for your tips in choosing the retailers - I have been looking at independent local shops - went to three yesterday and came to a realisation that many don’t stock this range, even they stock Ulster brand (probably too expensive and not as popular?) everyone said they can order it for me though. Interestingly enough no one has mentioned the Axfelt underlay. I will go back and ask them that - thank you. You mentioned Cloud9 - one of the shops said they use Cloud 9 Cirrus. Not sure whether you have come across it, please? Another one I see a lot is Blissful… seems to be PU form and I cannot find much spec about it. thanks again for your help!
@Jojo , I didn't have much knowledge about carpet or underlay at the beginning of this project but, after several previous carpeting projects with other houses which proved to be suboptimal, I was determined to try my best to get this one right. The internet has been a huge help for such things, especially these forums when professionals take time to offer their thoughts. My partner bails out earlier than me but now acknowledges that it has been worth it for the final results. Ulster Carpets has a superb website and if you do a Google search then you can enter your location and they will give you a list of nearby stockists. I learned that the prices do differ significantly between retailers. Most of the stockists we visited offered both Grange and York but our retailer's prices were typically £5 to £8 cheaper per square metre (I think it was metre) than almost everyone else we visited. That may not sound like much but when you are carpeting the whole house it really does make a huge difference. The reason was that our retailer is part of a 'buying group' of independent stockists and, as a result of their combined volume orders to Ulster Carpets, they secure the volume discount. So it's worth checking this if you are ordering a lot of carpet as it all adds up. Turning to the Axfelt underlay, which you can also read about and see on the Ulster Carpets website, our stockist didn't have any of this in store either. They just had the usual foams of varying thicknesses. The reason I pursued this is because I had read, on this forum I think, that carpets like York or Grange with their woven wilton backing need to rest on a felt top underlay, which Axfelt is. Someone on this forum explained that the woven backing embeds itself into the felt and helps prevent the carpet from shifting over time. Foam doesn't have the same type of contact point with the bottom of the carpet. Our fitters explained that it's rare for them to lay Axfelt but that the combination of this underlay with the Grange Wilton meant that the installation should 'last a lifetime'. We're aged 60+ so when a young man says this to you I have mixed feelings about what he is actually telling me . But I think he meant.... a long time! I also read on this forum that some fitters aren't so keen on laying Axfelt as it's not as easy or forgiving as foam. There was also something, somewhere about it being too deep for the stairs and landings, alongside the bottom of the bannisters. That's certainly not true of our stairs and landing where it is a perfect fit. So, no worries there then. This next bit is just assumption..... if you're buying cheaper carpet that won't last as long then maybe it's logical to buy cheaper underlay since, whenever you replace the carpet you should replace the underlay too. But you're about to buy expensive carpet that will hopefully last a very long time. You don't want your underlay disintegrating in your heavier foot traffic areas prematurely. It seems to me that it might be best to match the quality of the carpet with the quality of the underlay? That's why we chose Axfelt, together with the fact that Ulster Carpets extended the warranty by doing so (not that I have any real expectation that any warranty claim would be successful - just being realistic!). Ulster Carpets will send you free, small samples of their carpets and Axfelt underlay if you order them online at their website. And finally, we felt good that the order was for products made in the UK - where this is possible and feasible we both like to try and support UK manufacturing, the quality of which is really quite good these days (sadly, for Kitchen appliances it's Bosch but we choose European goods as a backup). That's just a personal thing. Hope this helps and happy to answer any further questions you may have. Best wishes, Arianne.
Hi Arianne, thank you very much!! I was initially not too sure about Axfelt underlay as all materials are 100% recycled, great sustainability but not sure whether it would have the same level of durability & ability to bounce back. But your explanation about its different top layer really makes sense. I did think the same - I’m already spend quite a bit on the carpet with the thinking it can last a long time and will make it a well spent item (and I don’t want to go through the hassle of replacing it every few years), I would rather do the same with the underlay - get the best that I could afford. I will order the sample and talk to the retailers again - thanks again for your help!
It's a pleasure to give something back to the forum for the help we received. Arianne. PS. Don't forget to try the carpet sample in different light and different parts of your room / house as it can change significantly from what you see in the showroom under their lighting.
You are too kind! I’m very fortunate to be able to connect with you and hear all these great hints and tips! Have ordered my samples today and will try them out at different time/ location with different lighting source! Thanks again. I will keep you posted with my progress! Have a good evening.
Hi Arianne, I don’t know how I missed your reply! Thanks for sharing your solution. One of the local retailers said using crumb rubber type of underlay will do; another one wasn’t too concerned- he explained to me that the issue is more the chair than the desk. Overtime, the wheel could make the carpet lose from its movement. He thinks it’s still going to be relatively low traffic (in my case it’s just me/one chair), he did say if I’m concerned, another common solution is to glue the carpet and underlay together. I read on this forum today that may need to glue the underlay to the floor bed, then carpet to the underlay. I am not too sure about the glue part yet… another thing I have seen people do is place a smooth plastic mat under the chair. The downside is if water / moisture gets underneath it without noticing/remove the mat to allow it dry, it can develop a mould… and probably will have the same colour fading challenging too!
The plastic mat…… there’s lots of suppliers of these. I considered it and saw that they were available from Viking Direct, Argos, Amazon etc. I’ve found this last week that the wheels of our office chair move quite freely atop of the Grange off cut and leave no visible trace. So, the carpet beneath should be fine as well as the underlay. The off cut is exactly the same as the main carpet and so is not too noticeable, whereas I think the plastic mat may well be. Whatever…. pays your money and makes your choice . Hope you find a good solution. Arianne.
A brilliant summary Arianne. Only point I would add is the fitters could have put some blind gripper or ply under the door bars to stop the valley (a pet hate of mine).
That’s a good idea, I will give this some thought and I may call them up and enquire as to whether they would return for this small correction. Thank you! Arianne.
Hi Arianne, It has been a little while since I provided you with any update on my project. I would like to start with saying thank you! Your post and information you shared here helped me so much. I also had people recommends to reuse the grippers, refused to use double bank gripper even after I pointed it out, or simply saying just trust us and leave it to us… anyway, I’m going to use new grippers and now just need to choose the colour - deciding between Spelt and Angora. Thanks again!
Your welcome Jojo. We can confirm that we remain completely happy with the new carpet and consider it money well spent. I particularly enjoy walking upon it barefoot! Best wishes, Arianne.
Hi Arianne and Jojo, Im totally new here and to carpeting and trying to recarpet a various rooms in the house which are quite large. Ive never heard of the Axel underlay but now interested as we were recommended COSI underlay 10mm by our local fitters. My only question is does the Axel underlay go with any carpet or does it have to be under one of the Ulster carpets? we were recommended CORMAR carpets maybe Primo elite. Also what do you think of the CORMAR carpets we are look for short tight twist. Thanks
Hi Monty. But busy right now but will reply properly later today. Happy to help, as others have done for us. Best wishes, Arianne.
Hi Monty, thanks for your patience. I am just a consumer and not a carpet professional (retailer or fitter). I have learned a lot about it because of our own journey this year - both my own research and the advice from the professionals on this forum, the latter having been clear and unambiguous. Priceless. So others are better qualified thank me to offer definitive advice but, FWIW, here’s my thoughts. First, the Cosi underlay. Follow this link to read what folk on this forum thought of it previously…. https://theflooringforum.com/threads/underlay.17935/ Axfelt can be laid beneath carpets made by manufacturers other than Ulster Carpets. What’s important is the purpose of Axfelt. It’s designed for use with carpets that have been woven into the backing (Wilton woven etc.). Apparently, the carpet backing beds into the Axfelt and it helps stop movement over time and reduce the wear rate. Time will tell in our case but it’s been great so far - soft underfoot (not crazy soft but lovely when walking on it barefoot, despite the carpet being soft pile depth, albeit very dense. Your carpet is polypropylene. You won’t need to worry about spillages, so that’s good. I’m unsure about the quality and durability of what you’re considering, although the elite is the better if the two options being offered in the range. This is a balancing act in that the price for this carpet is relatively inexpensive, probably because polypropylene is relatively inexpensive as a man-made fibre. You’ll need to be realistic in your expectations - polypropylene’s ability to recover from the crush effect of us walking on it can wane faster than wool or nylon twists. The twisting of the fibres help provide strength but I’ve read that, in high traffic areas, polypropylene isn’t going to outlast tightly woven wool & nylon blends (80:20). But then these two materials are much more expensive and, although it’s a truism, you do get what you pay for in life. I’m unsure if I would invest in Axfelt, itself an expensive underlay, under the carpet you’re choosing at this price point. Others will know better but it feels like an odd match of expensive underlay with modestly priced carpet. I think you can do better than the Cosi underlay based upon my reading of the advice contained in the other thread linked above on this site, but perhaps not the Axfelt? In summary, try and get a short depth pile. While the longer, deeper pile carpets feel nice in the shop they will quickly crush and collapse under repeated foot traffic. Second, get that short depth pile in a dense weave because the dense weave will ensure you have many more fibres per square metre, spreading the load more evenly as you walk across it - think how HGV lorries use three rear axles to increase the distribution of weight on roads when fully loaded to reduce the wear on the tarmac! Ensure the fibres are twisted tightly - the twist strengthens the fibres making them more resilient and able to pop back up after you’ve trodden on them. Finally, get the best material you can afford which offers the characteristics you’re seeking. We chose an 80:20 wool & nylon blend which is hard wearing but the wool is prone to staining. But we don’t have kids at home any more. I hope this helps and hasn’t confused you more. If you wait a few days then there’s a chance that some of the professionals will post a reply. Patience. Best wishes, Arianne. PS. We still love our carpet but if was about £60 per square metre from memory, plus the Axfelt underlay in addition. Our four bedroom house (just a typical Barrett house) cost £6.5k. Through lounge, hallway, stairs, landing and four bedrooms. Kitchen, bathrooms and cloakroom don’t have carpet but Karndean luxury vinyl plank (LVP) that DH fitted perfectly. He wouldn’t touch laying the carpets because he said this requires the experience of proper fitters.
Thanks Arianne for your very detailed reply. You think you've nailed it and then speak to someone else who completely turns everything on its head. I had actually seen the thread you linked to about COSI 10mm but didnt feel there was enough info there to base a decision. I take your point that axel underlay needs to go with a carpet with woven backing, whereas I am moving towards 'felt'.Absolutely no way can i stretch to £60 per sqm carpet!!! I take your point about the mismatch of expensive underlay to moderately priced carpet. Other underlay options were Cloud 9 and Cloud9 Cumulus both which i see have been discussed on other threads and not terribly great so I hope some others join the thread & give some other suggestions better than COSI but no more than 2 or 3 pounds more expensive. Definitely going for a short pile tight twist carpet - this sums it nicely " Finally, get the best material you can afford which offers the characteristics you’re seeking". Out of interest what was the price per sqm of the Axfelt underlay you bought? prices have galloped wildly since Covid so that would today's price is probably double.
Hi Monty, I can’t recall the price of the Axfelt underlay TBH and we’re currently away staying with our son so we have no ready access to the paperwork (the local carpet shop are paper based, still). It’s worth getting input from folk on this forum if they’ll chip in. Maybe even start a fresh thread similar to the way I did as it may get more attention from those that can really help you. If polypropylene is what it needs to be (and it probably will be around this price point) then getting a short, dense pile on a decent backing with a tight twist is the way to go for the carpet. All the experts say that the underlay is crucial - if it’s foam then I guess you want a high density foam (is there ultra high density foam? I think there might be) with good depth. Will felt alone give you the feeling of depth that we all hanker for? I’m not sure. All the best with your research. Take your time as it’s a big purchase and installation causes a fair bit of disruption. We wanted to get this right and you do to, clearly. Arianne.
